Turbo FIRE Engines

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Forced Induction Information

HOW A TURBO WORKS

FACTORY HONDA TURBO SOHC ENGINE

TURBOCHARGERS * This is only a list, you must decide what turbo to use based on the turbo specs.
-GT12
-GT15
- T2
- T3/T4
- Garrett T3 Super 60
- T4
- TD04
- 14B
- 16G
- T15
- T25

INTERNAL VS EXTERNAL WASTEGATES
- Internal Wastegates
* Vents exhaust evenly from the manifold instead of a few runners like external ones.
* Less boost adjustability without boost controller.
- External Wastegates
* Allow you to adjust the boost level

TURBO MANIFOLD
* Aftermarket Headers are not strong enough to support the stress of a turbocharged engine.
Log Type VS Tube Type
* It is an assumption that a tube type manifold will produce more lag then a log style, a good tubular manifold design with low restriction will give no more lag then a log manifold and in some cases a tubular manifold will flow better.
* Log styles are mainly used because they are cheaper to make therefore they are cheaper to buy and usually are made to install with factory equipment unaffected.


LOG TURBO MANIFOLDS





TUBE TURBO MANIFOLDS





EXHAUST
2.5" - 3.0"
OIL
* For the turbo oil feed you tap the line for the oil pressure switch on the oil filter adapter.

OIL COOLERS
- HKS
- B&M

INTAKE CHARGE COOLING
- AIR / AIR INTERCOOLER
--- SPEARCO
- WATER / AIR INTERCOOLER
--- SPEARCO
--- PWR
- ALCOHOL INJECTION
--- SMC
--- ERL AQUAMIST
- WATER INJECTION
--- AQUAMIST
--- ERL AQUAMIST

INTERNAL ENGINE UPGRADES
- PISTONS
--- WISECO
--- DIAMOND

- RODS
--- EAGLE @ IMPORTPARTS.COM
* According to eagle the lowest priced place to get them is importparts.com

- BOLTS FASTENERS
--- ARP

TRANSMISSION UPGRADES
- LSD
--- PHANTOM
- CLUTCH
 


ENGINE MANAGEMENT
- MICROTECH
- J&S SAFE GUARD
- SDS
- HALTECH
- HONDATA
- ELECTROMOTIVE TEC3
- MEGASQUIRT
- LINK
- MOTEC
- A'PEXi
- GREDDY
- AEM
- ACCEL DFI * PDF Format
- DTA
- GOTECH-MFI
- HOLLEY COMMANDER 950 ECU

OTHER ENGINE MANAGEMENT
REDLINE * Possible Upgrade for EFI or a Carb to EFI conversion start point. Many options to choose from.

TURBO TERMS
PSI = Pounds Per Square Inch * Also referred to as "Boost" /// 12psi = 12lbs /// 1 BAR = 14.503773773 PSI
FMIC = Front Mount Intercooler * Cools air that was compressed by the turbo, usually located in front bumper.
IC = Intercooler ( or ) Internal combustion *Context dependent
FI = Forced Induction * Term used to describe Turbocharging, Supercharging, and Nitrous Injection.
Charge Pipe * Pipe located after the turbo, carries compressed air charge to pistons
BOV = Blow Off Valve * Vents excess Charge Pipe pressure
Wastegate * Vents excess manifold pressure to control level of boost
FMU = Fuel Management Unit * Adds more fuel via AFC readings
AFC = Air Fuel Controller
SAFC = Super Air Flow Computer * Modifies air-flow meter signal or pressure signal in some vehicles.

TURBO RELATED LINKS
MOSSELMAN TURBO SYSTEMS * One Known Turbo Manifold From Them In Pics Above, Maybe Two.
TURBOS UNLEASHED * Turbo Supplier
G2 IC TURBO * Good Turbo Info
JGS * Turbo Manifold Parts Supplier
TURBO CALCULATOR * Turbo Parts Supplier
TURBONETICS * Turbo Parts Supplier
TUNER TOYS * Turbo Parts Supplier

DO IT YOURSELF LINKS
HOMEMADE TURBO * How to make a homemade turbo setup
TURBO MANIFOLD #1 * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #2 * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #3 * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #4 * How to make a turbo manifold
ALCOHOL / WATER INJECTION * How to make homemade Water / Alcohol injection
INTERCOOLER * How to make an Intercooler

WANNABE TURBO LINKS
Fake Turbo / Real Turbo Sound

TURBOED A20A LINKS
TURBO DUAL WEBER CARBS

OTHER GOOD SITES
ENDYNE ENGINE DYNAMICS
AUTO SPEED * This site is filled with articles and do-it-yourself turbo projects.
PGFI * Good resource for learning about programming ECU's

BOOKS ON TURBOCHARGING
Supercharging, Turbocharging and Nitrous Oxide Performance
By: Earl Davis, Diane Davis


Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems
By: Corky Bell


Turbochargers
By: Hugh MacInnes



SOMETHING DIFFERENT

SUPERCHARGERS
- JACKSON RACING ( B16A or B18C )
- JACKSON RACING CONSUMER FEEDBACK

- VORTECH
- PROCHARGER
- CAMDEN
- THOMAS KNIGHT ESC ( ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGER ) * So far one of the best electric supercharger designs, worth it? You decide.
- ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGER E-RAM * Buy at your own pleasure, but please try to do your research before you spend money on this.

NITROUS OXIDE
- ZEX
- Nitrous Express
- NOS

 
This should answer some of your questions regarding turbocharging your car and would save people especially newbies asking the same old turbo questions again & again.

Engine
Normally aspirated engines are not happy with the heat and pressure of turbocharging. You need to lower the compression to a level manageable by the engine and ignition control you are using. Generally 7.5:1 to 8.0:1 will do what you want on today's terrible pump gas.
Pistons and Rings
Always use Forged Pistons that are properly designed for the engine you are building. We use JE Pistons and Total-Seal Rings in all our engines. If you cannot afford the forged pistons and you are building an engine that has a factory Turbocharged equivalent then use the factory Turbo pistons. They are never all that great for serious duty use but they are a good affordable alternative to normally aspirated high compression pistons. We use Total-Seal rings because they have proven to keep all the power in the cylinders and minimize blow by under hard boost conditions.
Block
Generally the block is fine for streetable boost levels. Very high boost pressures or race applications are a different story. If a steel shim gasket is available for your particular application, use it. They are expensive but well worth the money.
Cylinder Head and Porting
Good quality valve jobs and Stainless Steel valves. If Stainless Steel valves are not available or not in your budget at least get the stock ones high heat coated. This is generally inexpensive and will extend the life of the valve considerably. Porting varies with the head and engine. Generally for most street applications a nice clean up port with most of the attention being paid to the bowl area around the head of the valve and good match porting of the manifold and head surfaces. We try to do a high polish on the exhaust port to promote exhaust flow and minimize buildup and a swirl finish on the intake for better fuel atomization.
Ignition Timing Control
This is the key to Turbo cars running on pump gas. You cannot use a normally aspirated ignition distributor or engine control for a Turbo application. You will detonate and hurt even the best of pistons and rings. Most factory Turbo cars have excellent ignition systems with very conservative timing curves that are great for higher boost applications. If you are doing a normally aspirated to Turbo conversion you need to either incorporate the ignition into your fuel injection or use a timing control such as an MSD or JACOBS to insure you have proper boost retard for the level of boost you are running.
Fuel Management
Turbocharging can be done with a carb but to make it easier, it should be Fuel Injected first. Carbs will have drivability and heat problems not to mention float and seal failures ( Just ask someone that owns a Maserati Biturbo ). Programmable management is really the answer to a simple and effective installation on a normally aspirated car. Retrofitting a factory F.I. system into a normally aspirated car or into a car with a different style of management is not impossible but it is very complicated, so be sure and have a very good working knowledge of the cars electrical system before undertaking such a task. We recommend an on-board air fuel ratio monitor in all applications to make sure you do not lean out the engine under boost and put big holes in things. We use the HALMETER AF/30. It is almost always necessary to install a larger volume high-pressure fuel pump and some form of Boost Referenced Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator to insure proper fuel delivery under boost.

CARB to TURBO EFI
Ok if you want a turbo, you should do a carb to efi swap/conversion

The next step after you convert to EFI there's a shitload of things you need to consider,

firstly the condition of your engine. How many km's has it done? Is it blowing smoke? How much boost does the stock pistons, rods handle? - To answer that, generally the stock engine would be safe around 5-6psi at the most, I wouldn't push it anymore. And if it's a really heavily used motor, well...look to a rebuild with forged pistons, and all the other crap.

How much boost do you want to go? anything beyond 6+ look to rebuilding your engine first, secondly look at upgrading the fuel delivery, injectors, pumps, FPR, etc. The last thing you EVER want is running lean, you run lean and BOOM! there goes a piston, or worse.

Your transmission, the Fiat transmissions from what I've gained are all right for their stock purposes but aren't that strong. I have been through a few 4spd/5spd manuals. So with these if you want to avoid that, perhaps rebuilding it with stronger internals may be a way to go. I don't know how the new ones are like, but a promising option is upgrading to the 5spd from a higher powered engine (like the Punto 75/Uno turbo). I wouldn't want to turbo a Selecta running the auto, quite frankly auto's are pretty crappy, and weak. Plus 5spd manual is more fun...

Next, the turbo you want, best to go T2, I reckon the IHI RHB5 would be a good option for those wanting to race. I've used a IHI RHF3 and a Garrett GT1549s and overall the Garrett produces a higher boost peak while the IHI has a faster spoolup.

Next a turbo manifold, since an aftermarket turbo kit was never developed for the Fiat, you need a custom made manifold, and they can get pricey depending on what you want. So get a few quotes.

Other things you need to look at, tricking the stock ECU as it doesn't like boost that can be done through by generally bleeding boost pressure off the MAP sensor through the use of check valves. But an option with more tunability is definitely an aftermarket computer, like a Haltech, Microtech, wolf3d, etc. Do some research, I used Megasquirt only because I had no stock ecu, otherwise I would simply rechip.

And definitely look at trying to do a lot of the work yourself, you'll save plenty of cash.

Things like engine and turbo rebuilds, etc you shouldn't touch, not unless you REALLY know what your doing, and have all the right tools. Otherwise, leave it to someone who knows what they're doing, coz if you fuck up! well....you know.

So yeah...that's it.
I probably missed a few things, but if anything else, just ask the people on the forums or contact some turbo experts.
 

Turbo basics

A turbo is 2 turbines connected by a shaft, on in the exhaust stream, the other in the intake. Exhaust gasses going through the exhaust turbine cause it to spin, because both turbines are connected the intake side spins too forcing air into the intake. A header brings multiple pipes together into one pipe.

SUPERCHARGING VS TURBOCHARGING
Is having a supercharger work all the time really a good thing?
Superchargers take power from the crank to turn them, which would otherwise be sent to the wheels.
Turbos use the energy of the exhaust gas to turn them, which would otherwise be sent out the tail pipe and not used.
Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. For moving larger volumes of air superchargers are better.
The bigger a turbo is the longer it takes to spool up, superchargers don't have that problem.
A supercharger requires more boost to make the same amount of power as a turbo though because turbos don't drain power from the engine to turn.

AUTO VS MANUAL
It's actually better to have an auto box behind a turbo motor. Aside from the issues of the trans being able to withstand the torque the motor is putting out, the auto trans keeps the motor under load when it shifts, which keeps the turbo spooled up between shifts.
The turbo won't be spooled up at normal freeway driving. Exhaust gas volume and velocity are what spools up the turbo. Unless you drive down the freeway with the pedal to the floor the engine isn't going to have enough load on it to bring to turbo up to anywhere near full boost. As long as the turbo is properly sized to your motor then it will only take a fraction of a second to spool up anyway.
 

TURBOCHARGING A CARBURETOR

Probably the best way to turbo a carb is via a Holley 4 barrel with vacuum secondaries. Most important is to run a draw-through setup in which air flows through the carb prior to the turbo. This gets rid of pressurizing the carb. When boost comes on you need more fuel to keep from a lean condition. This is where the vacuum secondaries come in. The diaphragm that controls the secondaries operates on the presence of vacuum, but if you disassemble the diaphragm and move the spring to the other side of the rubber, you can run straight manifold pressure to the diaphragm and when boost comes on, it will open the secondaries and utilize the secondary fuel system, giving fuel enrichment and a closer to Stoich mixture. two things you need are an air/fuel gauge and different rate spring to dial out your boost/secondary opening crossover point......

In the case of a 2BBL you would either have to jet extremely fat at idle and low RPMs to make up for the much denser charge of air when the snail is boosting', or jet it so that it doesn't instantly foul plugs (leaner) and risk detonation and eventually a burnt piston. There has to be enrichment at boost. Supercharger is not a bad idea (I through this one around), and because it builds boost so low in the rpm curve, jetting can be set accordingly (no "boost/no boost situation)
 

TURBOCHARGING A CARBURETOR

Well if you must know here is Someone's crazy plan to turbo a carb...

Turbo Placement
Well not exactly knowing the size turbo I'm using I decided to have it as close to the carb manifold as possible.
Why did I do this?
Well the longer the air fuel charge has to travel the more heat it picks up and also the more chances for the fuel to separate form the air.

Turbo Manifold / Exhaust Routing
Long header tubes will be needed... small enough to keep the velocity high but large enough to account for the need for exhaust flow.
One thing that must be done is protection of all parts in the area from heat. So lots of heat shielding to the brake lines and trans and coolant lines is required.
Problem is while protecting things from heat you're also trapping in heat. So you'll need a way to vent heat from the area between the shielding and the body of the car... a few holes drilled into the firewall that tap into the drain well below the windshield should provide incoming cold air.
Also wrapping the header / turbo in key areas only to avoid warping the header tubes but protect the distributor and ignition parts... is a good idea, fully wrapping could be bad or good, heat kills the turbo but loss of heat kills the exhaust velocity.
The downpipe for the turbo will need to be wrapped depending on where it routes... I was thinking there is a space that you usually reach thru when changing the oil filter, so with an oil relocation kit you can use that hole to run the downpipe, you can see the downpipe routed this way in the pic below.

Carb Placement
For the carb I was thinking a single 4bbl holley and have it bolt to the turbo with a 45 or 90 degree elbow that feeds the carb mix to the turbo... but add a serious heat spacer to protect the carbs fuel source from boiling.


Think this is a good plan?

You can keep A/C that's for sure...

Other bits will include:
Possible advance diaphragm modification to be boost referenced instead of vacuum referenced... this idea where someone was modifying the vacuum secondary to be a boost secondary.

This isn't the final Turbo orientation... but it gives you and Idea of what I was thinking of.


Here is a SU carb on a Draw-Thru Setup, I like the way the manifold and turbo are situated with the turbo outlet facing upwards, I never figured the fuel would flow well upwards... I wanted my air/fuel charge to exit the turbo with the outlet facing down. Also water was injected in front of the carb instead of port injection.


Here is a Draw-Thru Setup, it uses a 4bbl 390 cfm double pumper on a rotary motor

RotoMaster T04B mounted on a Datsun 510 equipped with a Mazda 13B rotary

Here is a list of some problems and links to possible solutions

DRAW THRU CARB
- Extreme vacuum condition if the turbo is at boost and throttle is closed could suck the oil out of the turbo bearings.
(never use a turbo off a diesel engine in a draw-thru setup because it lack the seals and will leak)
- If oil gets into the air / fuel mix, it lowers your octane immediately, and pinging will start at lower boost pressures.

-FIX- Need turbo with a positive (Carbon) seal on the compressor side of the turbine
-FIX- Run a oil cooler before the oil inlet into the turbo. This will cool the oil down and help it from being sucked through the seals or blown through the exhaust side (cooler oil is thicker). Also makes the turbo run cooler and last longer.

- Restricting the intake to the turbo will lose compressor efficiency.
- Air-Fuel mixture must pass through the turbo
- Fuel must stay suspended in the intake charge
- Compressor turbine will throw the fuel against the turbo shell, causing a lean-out condition, thus turbo lag.
- Fuel is denser than air and tends to separate in the turbo and puddle up
- Turbo less efficient because it has to pump heavier mixture
When carb causes a pressure drop and the turbo tries to increase the pressure there is a loss in efficiency, which translates into a hotter mixture in the engine which limits the boost you can run and your power.

-FIX- Water / Alcohol Port Injection
-FIX- Avoid Extra Intake bends
- Heat needed to keep the carb from Icing

Air Charge Cooling
- Draw thru Intercooling, Not possible since intercoolers are dry flow
- Water / Alcohol Injection
-- SMC
-- RSR
-- AQUAMIST
-- ERL AQUAMIST

Turbo Cooling
- Oil coolers with fan
-- B&M Oil Cooler

Oil Cooling
- Oil coolers with fan
-- B&M Oil Cooler

Engine Cooling
- 160 Degree Thermostat
- Water / Alcohol Port Injection
-- SMC
-- RSR
-- AQUAMIST
-- ERL AQUAMIST
-- EGR, either air cooled or water cooled, introduced as a source of CO2

Ignition Controls
Distributor Diaphragm Modification


Engine Internals
- Cam
- Valve springs
- Rods
- Pistons

Transmission
- Higher stall speed torque converter
-- LEVEL 10 UPGRADE

PCV System

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.
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Airflow Calculators

BSFC= brake specific fuel consumption ( how much fuel an engine requires for a given horsepower output. most naturally aspirated engines have a BSFC of about 0.5lb per horsepower-hour. that means that engine will consume 0.5lb of fuel per hour for each horsepower it makes. Turbocharged engines typically have a BSFC of 0.6 or higher then they are on boost. An injector's flow rating is based on continuous flow conditions, but most max out at 80% duty cycle, which is the accepted industry standard.

Flow= Horsepower x BSFC / # of Injectors x Duty Cycle

So, suppose you want to make 200hp with a naturally aspirated four-cylinder engine.
Flow= 200x0.5/4x0.8 Flow= 31.25lb/hr

To convert to CC/MIN here is the formula

Flow (cc/min) = Flow (lb/hr) x 10.5

 

Here are a few questions you may have
1) Why is a stock ECM rechip kit for a turbo better than any standalone kits? Like, is there any new things that u have in there?

 

Better, that's hard to say better. define better. It does lots of drivability things that the standalones don't. Not to mention its about 1/3 the price. I doubt MOTEC devoted millions in research to build a better box. get my point now. oh and parts are easy to find. almost any part store in America stocks everything in the kit you'd ever need.


2) My goal is to have a fast STREET LEGAL car. I Have to pass inspection with laws and I wanna know if your kit will make it like that?
 

Well that's a good question. If you take the time to tweak the ECM properly there no reason you can pass a tailpipe test. as for a visual inspection you should keep the catalyst in place and they don't check under your hood so you shouldn't have any troubles. IF nox2 emissions are a concern let me know and ill help you work out the EGR parameters in the ECM to get that working to.


3) About the Engines. As of now, I am planning on using my stock block to boost it up to 200whp no more. So that wont mess anything up right?
 

Ahh, I'm not going to guarantee you will not or will blow up your engine. there are some many factors involved. ill tell you the truth. you can, I have gotten 180whp out of these engines stock. but you might not have my luck


4) How is the heat production of a T3/T4 turbo inside the engine bay? I am planning on Thermo wrapping the header and the exhaust turbine of the turbo. Is it advised?
 

The manifold does a really good job keeping the heat inside of itself. A t3/t4 is complete overkill on anything under 400hp.


5) What are the sensors that I need for the turbo upgrade? as far as I know ECT, MAP, MAT, O2, TPS, exhaust gas temp, and cylinder head temp. These are the ones I feel like are crucial except for the cylinder head temp that I just wanna monitor?
 

Well there is an interesting thing to think about. The GM ECM has a lot of built in temperature compensation, knock detection the list goes on. and its built that way to protect the engine from knuckleheads like us who have to have every last bit of the 50000hp we can squeeze out of it. As for sensors GM 2 bar map sensor, knock, TPS ECT,IAT,02 and the input from the ignition module cover it.


 

What do I need and how much does it cost to turbo?
This will give you a rough idea.

First off you will need these parts (In red are my comments, this list was not created by me and is only an example)

Custom Manifold $400-$600 (The stock manifold can be used if modified but will complicate the oil filter removal)
T-2 turbo Used/Rebuilt $250 (There are many turbo options to choose, used turbos are much cheaper)
Custom Piping $250 (there is no way around this, you can find cheap stainless pipe in surplus locations. PVC can be used for boost up to 10PSI but will melt/distort at higher pressures)
Intercooler--Cheap route maybe $100 for a used fender well one.. The right way approx $700 for a good one(New)(Used ones can be had cheap from people upgrading. It is not necessary for low boost but nice to have.)
Injectors 290cc peak and hold Used--$50-$75 (Only EFI cars need this, to swap injectors the ECU needs reprogramming. Stock injectors are good for low boost)
Fuel pump $175 (
Vortech FMU 1:1 rise/rate Used $75-$100 (Only needed if not using an Adj. fuel pressure regulator)
Blow off valve $210 (Bosh has some cheap valves that work well, reason people don't used them is because they're really quiet!!)
Manual boost controller Used $75 (Only needed to increase boost beyond the wastegate preset)
exhaust 3" Downpipe $400 includes 3" flex and cat (The stock exhaust is ok for low boost, for higher boost at least 2.25" should be used)
Adj. fuel regulator $85 (only needed if not using a FMU)
Boost Gauge $25-$75 (A must have for any turbo car)
Oil Pressure Gauge $25-$120 (A nice thing to have but not necessary, low oil pressure=blown engine and turbo)
Turbo timer used $100 (not necessary if you let the car idle a bit before shutting down)
Air Filter $50 (Any air filter can be used, no filter is NOT an option)
Silicon connectors $75 (not needed if using PVC for intake and charge piping)
Getting the oil return line welded for the oil pan $50
The oil return line $45 (Fuel hose can be used for this as it can be had cheap)
Wastegate Used $150 (Not necessary if the turbo has one built-in, otherwise an external one must be fitted)
Ignition Used $175-$225 (Not necessary until around 1bar of boost)

This is the cheap route with all the parts you should have..
Then if you want to get into the motor, clutch, tranny, computer, better fuel delivery, it gets real expensive...

so all and all look to spend approx. $3,000 which I find to be pretty cheap, but the you have to draw in the labor if you donít look for the parts yourself, or if you donít install them yourself... The main part is, you have to be willing to do most of the work...(In my experience for a Fiat this can be done for around 750 euros if you do the fabrication and installation yourself)

 

 

Parts of this information were taken from:

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Last revised: 2009-11-15.